32 Responses

  1. does the name for this new murderwedge necessarily need to end in -or? If yes, I have some propositions:
    moderator, evictor, protector, federator (after all it’s an old republic ship)… or fractal has already chosen for himself and in that case all of this is pointless.

  2. Not in the Episode Grievous Intrigue trust me. Just rewatched it.

  3. Wondering on name but mostly what time period. To me seems to make sense that this would predate the Mandator so still obviously useful due to its size but Mandator is improved in armor and firepower for the same length. Just wondering what your design thoughts and back ground are for this thing.

    • Fractalsponge

      Old Republic timeframe. My design puts this as a flagship. So, fighters and troops for intervention, and massive comscan capabilities.

      Seriously, I do not want to put hard numbers to the Mandator. But in relative terms I’d see the Mandator as bulkier, more armor, almost no cityscape (Assertor/Bellator spine), less hangar.

      • Anonymous

        So the Legator is more of the command ship/flagship (not sure they are the same thing or not) than a battleship right?

  4. Still wondering what you’re gonna name this beast. It’s not really a Mandator (no hump, and Mandator would have 5x the armament (able to bitchslap 1,000+ Recusants IIRC)) but maybe Mandator Lite? Since it’s 8 km like a Mandator? Or is it the Legator? Auditor-class would be interesting, also.

    • I have to say I always hated those stats. I know they’re pseudo-cannon, but all the same the just strike me as…excessive. I mean really? One ship (even a 8km beast) taking on a thousand capital ships?) There’s a bit of a largely unspoken joke among fans that Sci-Fi Author’s tend to have no sense of scale. Sorry, ranting….On another note I like the name “Legator”!

      • I feel exactly the same way about the mandator lol. However, we do see this star battleship having 50+ HTL turrets where a Venator has 8, so it’s probably an order of magnitude more powerful. And yeah, I suggested Legator a while back for the compellor cruiser and I keep at it for this build.

        • To be fair, that quote says nothing about a hypothetical Mandator’s condition *after* such a battle. Might very well be a case of thousand-cuts-death *plus* utter decimation for the wolfpack, assuming neither party breaks for hyperspace at a critical point (which I find damned unlikely).

      • Fractalsponge

        No, Saxton is completely right. The problem with scale goes the other way. An 8km ship should be about 8^3, or 512 times more powerful than a 1km ship of the same proportions (and a Recusant is super hollow and narrow for its length). Volume, and therefore reactor size, and therefore power, rises with the CUBE of length.

        • It’s true if we assume that reactor volume grow proportionally to the volume of the ship itself
          but it may not be always the case, and yes the recusant is particularly skinny for a destroyer but such a ship can gain a lot of space by simply removing crew quarters, hangars, launch bays and even kilometers of lightened corridor. space which, in turn, can be use to increase reactor size and fuel capacity.

          • Fractalsponge

            There may be exceptions, but the trend line across multiple orders of magnitude suggests that if anything, power per cubic meter of reactor increases with volume, which helps to explain the Death Star.

            Crew space is insignificant. Unless everyone gets houses.

            The Recusant is something like 1/4 of the volume of a solid dagger shape the same length, which…oh look, a Venator generates 4.5x the power.

          • There is exceptions. The providence star destroyer, which is one of the few well made and not mass-produced warship deployed by the CIS, has a firepower superior to a venator, without sacrificing fighter capacity, despite having only a fraction of it’s volume (6 million m3 against 15) , precisely by throwing away the quasi-totality of it’s life support systems and crew quarters. The thing can field even more spacecraft than the vens can.

          • Fractalsponge

            Incorrect. Providence power generation is 3x less than a Venator. 1/3rd volume, 1/3rd power. In addition, the fighter capacity is bought by the fighters themselves requiring no crew or servicing, as well as being individually smaller and able to be packed much more closely. Replace a Venator’s starfighter complement with droid fighters and it would hold more than a Providence, given the volume available.

          • Steve Bannon

            If the Providence is only a third the volume of a Venator, then the CIS must have made major trade-offs in order to be even remotely competitive in terms of hitting and staying power. Perhaps the Providences rely heavily on proton torpedoes and large capacitor banks in order to be competitive with Republic Star Destroyers for brief exchanges, but sacrifice maneuverability, acceleration, endurance, and versatility.
            Separatist design philosophy focused on quick strikes, mass mothership operations and extremely specialized units led to some pretty fascinating designs. I’d like to see some from Fractal one day.

          • Thank, now I understand why the separatist lost the war.
            If even their carefully designed and crafted flagship can’t stand on even ground with the standard, mass-produced republican destroyer, they had pretty much no chance.

          • Fractalsponge

            It was always about numbers vs individual quality for the Separatists, but judging by the resource base, then yeah, they probably would’ve lost regardless.

          • I always assumed the providence was the exception to this rule because it was a rare sight on the separatist side and their production rate was very low.

          • Fractalsponge

            At the end of the day it is still a small ship. The Lucrehulks were much more impressive, and the combat refitted versions seem especially dangerous, given the internal space available for reactors and other combat systems.

          • The lucrehulk sure has an enormous reactor (which mean both powerful shield and weapon) but their past as commercial cargo for the tradefed may mean a weaker structural integrity than a dedicated battleship of the same size. Still a sight to behold on the battlefield though. I feel for the separatists who lose so many of them on geonosis.

          • Chris Bradshaw

            The Separatists lost the Clone Wars in 32.5 BBY in Seswenna Hall, when the Neimodians killed the two Kuati members of the Trade Federation Directorate. From that day onwards, Kuat aligned its fleets and shipyards with the Supreme Chancellery, rather than with the Trade Federation. This did not work out as the Neimodians intended in the long run.

          • My bad, the volume of the providence is actually superior to 10 millions cubic meters.
            A 6 millions cubic meters volume would give a 113m wide, 600m long cylinder.

      • AdmiralStrang

        The thing about Recusants is that they’re barely destroyers. Recusants are, as Frac said, really hollow and narrow– outside of a token few bulkier vessels most Confederate ships were really skeletal because they were half automated and what wasn’t automated was crewed by droids. They didn’t even have proper main hangars because droid fighters were meant to roost under their hull shrouds. Recusants’ shields weren’t particularly powerful and they were designed to attack in frontal charges, not slug it out in broadsides– the Mandator II, on the other hand, is an immense brawler several magnitudes the mass of a Recusant. I’d bet on the thousand number being about correct.

        • Are they talking about the standard Recuscant model? Or that weird large variant model Grievous was riding around in the clone wars tv show that could take on Venators? That sorta confuses the issue too… as for the math of ship power versus size I’ll take your word for it.

          • gorkmalork

            I’m pretty sure Grievous’ flagship was actually a Providence-class vessel, which comes in 1.1 km standard and 2.2 km custom flavors (he opted for the latter, natch). The confusion’s understandable, of course-I have a helluva time distinguishing non-Lucrehulk CIS ships on occasion.

          • I can confirm that the invisible hand, the personal flagship of general grievous, is a providence-class carrier/destroyer. in the clone wars series we were introduced to oversized version of already existent separatist warship, such as admiral trench’s dreadnought (a providence) and grievous first season flagship (a recusant), both twice the size of their original versions, respectively 2177m and 2400m.
            Frankly, the thing is an absolute mess, the only thing I know for sure is that grievous personal ship at the time of ROTS was, strangely, when you know the guy, the standard 1088m version

          • gorkmalork

            Confirmation appreciated. Also, kinda hilarious how the Clone Wars cartoon’s CIS flagships play the ‘super star destroyer’ trope a lot straighter than Executor ever did (since you certainly can’t say that thing’s just a scaled-up Impstar).

          • Agree, and it’s even more funny when you see that trench flagship, the invincible, is designated as a dreadnought. So just to recap, 2200m=dreadnought but 19000m=destroyer.

          • Fractalsponge

            Super Star Destroyer is rebel colloquial for everything bigger than a destroyer. The most current official nomenclature is Star Dreadnought > Star Battlecruiser > Star Destroyer > various cruiser types.

          • A cruiser isn’t superior to a destroyer?

          • Fractalsponge

            In the Saxton classification that I follow yes, Star Battlecruiser > Star Cruiser > Star Destroyer. In the EGTW book system, cruisers (no prefix) are one step below Star Destroyers (no Star Cruisers, just Star Battlecruiser). The book system follows the more common EU thread, but Saxton’s system is more logical to me.

          • Eric Otness

            Well, technically, Star Cruiser DOES exist in the EGTW book system, but it’s for the low end of the Star Battlecruiser line in terms of length (eg, the Allegiance-class). But yeah, agreed overall with your point.

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