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AdmiralBoi
Guest

So what’s the size of this monster?

Ryadra777
Guest

15km in length.

Ryadra777
Guest

So Fractal what I like the most about the Assertor is how very versatile it is with it’s equipment like it have three types of heavy turbolasers one for anti-capital (Duel 720 Teratons), one for anti-wolf pack (Quad 240 Teratons) and one for swift targets like destroyers (Oct 32/40 Teratons), a weaker but more reliable superlaser mainly used for capital ships and space stations instead of cracking planets and moons, a good amount of ion cannons (Quad 240 Teratons), thousands of medium and light turbolasers, gravity wells, tactical missile silos and 24-28 fighter wings. It is a perfect capital ship… Read more »

Bob
Guest
Bob

Ok, here’s a question. How many of these Dreadnoughts and Super Dreadnoughts are there out there? We know that there were at least 20,000 ISD I/II, and I think I remember reading there were somewhere near 10 Executor class in the EU – the Executor, Lubyanka(?), two of the class unnamed alleged to be supposedly fitting out with a cloaking device, etc. Given the enormous crew, nevermind the cost of building one, how many Assertor class? Obviously the lead – Assertor, and Wrath, but how many more could the Empire afford to build and crew? I think it’s obvious there… Read more »

Mike8404
Guest
Mike8404

I’m not the best when it comes to logistics, but I’ll give it a shot. First we have to look at the size of the Empire at is peak. According to Wookiepedia “The Galactic Empire’s territory at its peak consisted of some one and a half million member and conquered worlds, as well as sixty-nine million colonies, protectorates and puppet states spread throughout the entire galaxy, stretching from the borders of the Deep Core to at least Wild Space”. However a forum post I read included this information “There is a map of the Star Wars galaxy which claims “50… Read more »

Ryadra777
Guest

So Fractal this might sound crazy and/or redundant but I wonder would it be possible to make a Fleet Carrier variant of the Assertor?
Also by away I have decided I’m confident enough to come out of my anonymous status and this will be my new username from now on and I’m that same anonymous being who have ask many questions to you.

PhoenixKnight
Guest
PhoenixKnight

I believe that would be the Titan class

Fleet Admiral SMG3
Guest

-Weapon emplacements makes sense
-deadly to starfighters
-Invincible in a ship-to-ship combat
-Secondary command bridge
-Gravity wall generators
-Light Superlaser to decimate capital ships
-Protected huge hangar bays
-Main bridge well protected

I think even Thrawn would agree with me on the fact that this is almost a perfect capital ship. Great job!! I can’t even imagine how long you worked on this. This literally became my favorite Star Wars ship!

Spud
Guest
Spud

Actually, Thrawn might disapprove of how big and expensive it is (It would be a shame if it were destroyed by some rebel scum…)

Fifo
Guest
Fifo

See, that’s the point of it. It can absolutely destroy the rebel scum. Their main power is in their fighters, and this counters fighters perfectly. Any capital ships the new republic would throw at them would be destroyed, and tbh if you just threw this into an enemy fleet without an escort fleet to just try and 1v~10-30 then you don’t deserve to command it. With realistic opposition, there is no way for it to be beaten, and knowing Thrawn he’d have a use for it. Think of it as a force multiplier. Huge enemy fleet, move in similar sized… Read more »

Sephiroth0812
Guest
Sephiroth0812

Thrawn’s main objection towards dreadnoughts and bigger ships such as the Assertor or Executor is that they’re a waste of both manpower and resources because they can only be in few places at once even if you have more than 3 of them. 50+ ISDs are more flexible to use and have a better cost-efficiency rating with a philosophy geared towards being able to respond to multiple threats at once. Thrawn was not all about firepower and intimidation, his main concern was efficiency and flexibility.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

The solution to this is simple: wherever it is, be somewhere else. The Alliance wasn’t looking for a stand-up fight against superior firepower; they went for space-going guerilla warfare, hitting the Empire where it was weak and avoiding it where it was strong. The most powerful ship in existence does no good if you don’t know where to aim it.

Daib
Guest
Daib

By the time the original Thrawn trilogy was set, the New Republic had already claimed a significant proportion of the galaxy, and committed itself to defending those static population centers. Thrawn absolutely was able to find a set-piece fight if he wanted it against the NR. His problem was that he didn’t have enough tonnage to win those set-piece battles, not an inability to track down elusive insurgents.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

Depending on how much of the EU you believe, he likely didn’t have the resources because the really big ships had either mostly been destroyed, or hidden away (either by the Emperor in the Deep Core or bit players like the Yevetha).

Jean-Luc Martel
Guest
Jean-Luc Martel

If thrawn designed a dreadnought, this is what it would look like! BEAUTIFUL!

Chris Jonston
Guest
Chris Jonston

My God, the design is truly well thought out especially with staggered gun batteries on the thirty (30) or so degrees sloped hull and the offset batteries along the spinal arch where all guns could come to bear during a broadside and even bow on engagements. This design is terrifyingly powerful in arcs of fire alone. Great designing and graphic representation!!
Cheers,
CJ

Anonymous
Guest

So Fractal if I may ask do you think the term Battleship and Dreadnought is outdated in sci-fi or not?

MidnightPhoenix
Guest
MidnightPhoenix

someone’s watching YouTube space dock

Anonymous
Guest

Indeed I did and speaking of Spacedock (His real name is Daniel) he one of those people who thinks the term battleship and dreadnought is outdated and doesn’t feel futuristic in sci-fi, he also thinks the term battlecruiser should be the ship-of-the-line and also thinks star destroyers are battleships and not destroyers.

Spud
Guest
Spud

That would be me…

Jean-Luc Martel
Guest
Jean-Luc Martel

in real life a battleship is an actual ship type, wherass a dreadnought is the name of a specific ship that was the first modern style of battleship. the HMS Dreadnought. after that ship came out every other ship was a post or pre-dreadnought design. Dreadnought literally means FEAR NOTHING.

Bob
Guest
Bob

Actually the term Dreadnought has a specific naval meaning – the meaning being that all of the guns of the main battery are of the same caliber. Prior to Dreadnought, battleships (iron hulled steam propulsion with an armored belt) had mixed caliber main batteries. All battleships post HMS Dreadnought were, by definition Dreadnoughts, at least for the major powers. Dreadnought was obsolete within three years of launching, gun calibers increased, wing turrets went away in new designs, placing the main battery along the centerline of the ship, armor belt thickness increased, and that trend didn’t stop until they stopped being… Read more »

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

Of course, all of this presumes that the SWU must adhere to the same ship classification system as the real world.

Noah
Guest
Noah

So someone on a dreadnought should dread-not? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

(Kill me)

rodtod
Guest
rodtod

Really enjoy the lore from Essential Guide to Warfare. You can learn about why the Empire had numerous dreadnought designs in the works.

Anonymous
Guest

So Fractal I was thinking a Star Dreadnought that is a hybrid of both the Assertor (Mass size, weapons and superlaser) and the Executor (Huge hanger bay and speed) and would be at least 20 KM in length. Do you think it is a plausible idea?

MidnightPhoenix
Guest
MidnightPhoenix

check SWTC for some inspiration

Noah
Guest
Noah

The Assertor is faster than the Executor.

Hector Barbossa
Guest
Hector Barbossa

That ship is amazing, how many weapons and utilities it have?

arbel arad
Guest
arbel arad

how did you create this model?

Noah checkman
Guest
Noah checkman

Does it have gravity well generators? Because I noticed some semi-spheres in the hull that look like them.

PhantomFury
Guest
PhantomFury

Blue sublights stands out a lot! I think it’s because I kind of associate them with particularly rapid vessels like ISD and the Falcon?

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Most big ships besides Executor (which seems to have roughly Impstar-tier acceleration based on ESB & ROTJ) do seem to run blue, though other Falcon-scale tubs (Slave 1) and alphabet fighters (including A-wings) display a lot of yellow/red/pink. As one thread a while back was musing, thruster lightshows might not be reliable Roy G. Biv indicators.

PhantomFury
Guest
PhantomFury

Ah yeah, I know they aren’t based on temperature of the thust, but sometime I kind of feel wierd to see massive things with a bright sublight like that,

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Partial as I am to the battlecruiser-and-smaller end of our host’s capital stable, this is nonetheless a staggering piece of work (and a marked aesthetic improvement on its Legends siege-wedge predecessors).

Revan
Guest
Revan

Could you do the annihilator please? I think it would look amazing done by you. Love the assertor btw.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

If you’re referring to the ship here ( https://jbjhjm.deviantart.com/art/Finished-Star-Wars-Project-201432300 ) or in this vid ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur5zdnjak_E )…I’m pretty sure that was based on a model created by someone who peeked at Fractal’s early work in the first place, though not to the point of direct ripoff: ( http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=124353&start=1625 ) Talk about six degrees of napkin-navy design.

Vaes Beumaryn
Guest
Vaes Beumaryn

Absolutely stellar work; blows me away. I would love you to make a model of the Venator-class

Hecatomb
Guest
Hecatomb

At last, my favorite imperial warship has been converted to 4K! Out of curiosity, how much work does it take to do these upgrades?

Grand Admiral
Guest
Grand Admiral

Thank you, Fractalsponge! I am a massive fan of the Assertor. If I could pick to own any ship or station in the Star Wars Timeline, I would certainly choose the Assertor over even the Eclipse, Executor, or even one of the DS Battlestations. Once again, thanks for creating a 4K Assertor Class!

Sephiroth0812
Guest
Sephiroth0812

I’m much more in line with Grand Admiral Thrawn in that I don’t like these oversized super ships too much and would rather rely on a more versatile force. If I could pick a single ship in the Star Wars universe it would probably be a Venator or if it has to be a “big” ship either a plain normal Imperial II-class SD, an Allegiance or at maximum a Legator.

Valoren
Guest
Valoren

Personally, I Would take either a lucrehulk or a bellator, the first because it has enough hangar space to hold everything you would ever need, and the other because it’s faster than most battleships, While having plenty of firepower on its own. If size doesn’t matter, then I would probably chose an acclamator (fast, excellent hyperdrive, plenty of cargo hold, decent firepower an defense, capable of planetary landing…).

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

TBH, I’d be more aesthetically partial to an NR-refurbished Executor (ala Guardian or Lusankya) with mostly filled-in hangar cavity & a Malevolence-style ion pulse cannon (hell, Ex’s big enough to stick those on the bow *and* fantail), but Fractal’s Bellator & Praetor also fit my bill re: aesthetics, relative efficency & (slightly) more budget-consciousness. Home One & later Mon Cal heavies also get my nod, though some of those later Legends designs could really use more/beefier thruster layouts.

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

I’m more of a Secutor fan myself. Speed, firepower, and carrier operations on a flying wing styled hull. What’s not to love?

Chris Bradshaw
Guest
Chris Bradshaw

Hopefully carrying a whole swarm of V-Wings, which I still think are better than any TIE before the Avenger.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Secutor’s a little blunt-nosed for my aesthetic taste, but not a bad pick so long as you stick to destroyer-or-lighter prey. Or have a cruiser squad with small-craft needs to cover. As lower-tonnage capitals go, I’m nursing a real soft spot for Procursator’s ‘pocket Impstar with bigger teeth’ schtick.

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

The Procursator’s Rodney-esque heavy forward centerline battery is certainly appealing, but the lack of fighters and relatively low density of point defense would give me conniptions if I had to skipper one.

The Last Jedi was sort of an SMS Ostriesland moment in proving pretty conclusively that fighters can just fly through capital shielding. Battle-line proponents beware.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I suppose the Raddus bridge & hangar hits could be somewhat handwaved as (a) direct & indirect Acts of Force(R) and (b) involving a ship focusing no small chink of its juice into aft (ray?) shields…even if its largest pursuer should’ve been able to literally melt that Mon Cal’s ass off about a half-minute into the chase or (much) less. Still notable how neither component hit even seemed to nudge that ship a bit off track. Incidentally, gotta share your sodium re: TLJ’s space-combat bits & extreme TL attenuation (even in vacuum) being pushed as the new normal.

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

Like it or not TLJ is still Star Wars, so I guess we need to come up with increasingly convoluted explanations to keep capitals relevant. Off the top of my head, perhaps the reason only a handful of fighters were launched after the Raddus instead of a full attack group of thousands was that only those TIEs could be fitted with captured/salvaged Resistance IFF transceivers from the opening battle ( which has plenty of its own problems regarding fighter/capital interactions ) that would allow them to pass through Resistance shields automatically. Typically you might expect ship technicians to generate new… Read more »

Road Warrior
Guest
Road Warrior

I totally agree boss. Remember, Pablo Hidalgo dissing Dr. Saxton because Saxton, who like yourself, reasons things out.

I would go so far as to lump Pablo Hidalgo in with the infamous Rian Johnson.. are whatever the hell his name is.

I still wish you, Saxton, and ECR where in charge of things..

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Eh, this corner of Warsie-dom never quite hit ‘tail wagging dog’ level (and ECR, despite the rip-snorting destroyer-duel writing, was/is strictly a fanon creator). I can somewhat sympathize with Hidalgo’s balancing game ‘tween technical stuff & casual/newcomer accessibility…but lately it seems to me the core issue’s a lack of verisimilitude in the ST akin to no small amount of wonkier Legends content.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I recall no small handful of SD.net threads bouncing that Dune-style ‘slow stuff (like the TLJ bombs?) penetrates (particle deflectors?)’ chestnut as applicable to strike birds vs. warship shields, though you’d think pulling off the whole velocity-matching trick on most component-strike-enabling vectors would still leave small craft wide open for PD. Mighty convenient so many onscreen capitals just stationkeep when there’s no freighterful of heroes to chase (and even that’s 50-50). Also tempted to propose split-second fire-window exploitation, but *that* strikes me as patently Jedi-grade character fiat…then again, I suppose there’s the off chance Leia spent most of this sequence… Read more »

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

Given how Captain Canady seemed to be holding the Idiot Ball for much of his time on screen, I wouldn’t put it past him to not think of checking that someone had raised Fulminatrix’s shields until Poe was already under them. As for the attack run on Raddus: The hangar strike could have been small shield holes caused by the heavy fire, as Fractal said. I can’t remember whether the fleet was already fleeing by that point, but if they were, Admiral Ackbar had already ordered all power to rear shields. That could mean that the main shields simply weren’t… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I seem to recall Canady playing the Only Sane Captain Hung Out to Dry(C) role, what with the grumbling about Hux’s lack of initiative, belated TIE-screen deployment, his subordinates not quite realizing what Poe was defanging ’em for, etc. Given all that, pretty sure most of Fulminatrix’s juice was being taken up by the base assault & pending fire on the Resistance flagship…though seriously: if that thing wasn’t kludged together by some Neo-Sith Aesthetics Committee, you’d think more secondary guns & a saner weapon/shield/thrust budget would’ve been viable. Ren’s hangar strike did indeed happen mid-pursuit, so diverted shields + Force… Read more »

Spud
Guest
Spud

I feel bad for Captain Canady. He was put on a Mandator IV(Worst ship of the line).

Noah
Guest
Noah

Ugggghhhh… I’ve stopped calling it a Mandator IV. And I just might stop calling it a dreadnought. God, I hate TLJ and the idiots Rian Johnson hired to design his spaceships… The one good design from TLJ is probably the TIE Silencer, but the movie didn’t use it to its full potential. And that’s another reason to hate TLJ. All of the new ship designs we saw in TLJ were either absolute garbage, or they were actually smart, but Rian and his idiots were too stupid to use them to their full potential. The TIE Silencer flies in and blows… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

Thanks

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I may differ slightly WRT the Resurgent, but at least it comes off as much *less* of a boondoggle than the siege pizza with almost no defensive teeth & Hypermobilemurderbase(C) with (as you pointed out) insufficient punch to kill one Mon Cal over the course of *how much* straight-line pursuit time? Overall, nicely nuanced ramble.

Noah
Guest
Noah

Thanks. I’m also really mad at TLJ because of how there’s no references to the Aftermath novel trilogy, which is canon (also, mild spoiler warning (and I suggest you do read it at some point. It’s good!)). I was really hoping to see the canon version of the Eclipse (it’s apparently an Executor-class), and find out what happened to Grand Admiral Rae Sloane (Sloane and Hux’s dad found the Eclipse at the end of the last book in the trilogy (again, I suggest reading the books)). But as I said in my huge ramble, TLJ disappointed me. Majorly. Sloane did… Read more »

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

The idea with the IFF model was that a small shield panel would automatically flash off as a friendly craft made its approach rather than full permeability, although the idea of limited burnthrough under heavy bombardment needs fewer assumptions. A limited number of available salvaged IFF transponders was also how I justified the tiny number of TIEs making the attack, but Hux’s reluctance to let his subordinate fighter commanders to get the glory of the kill could also explain it. Perhaps diverting 100% of reactor power to weapons was the only way the Mandator IV could achieve the rate of… Read more »

Valoren
Guest
Valoren

Am i the only one in this comment section to have been seriously disappointed by Rogue One ? I remind you that it presented a single squadron of (five) Y-wings, one of the oldest fighter available to the alliance, as being able to fully disable an ISD (including shield, weapons, propulsion and more than likely communications) in a single run. By that token, capital ships aren’t really much more than useless. And I’m not even talking about this ridiculously impractical “ramming corvette” trick the rebels pulled out of their backside at the last minute…

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

Maybe the Scarif destroyers weren’t even running their primary reactor at full power. Garrison duty on a supposedly secure world might only rate a secondary reactor running full time, and with 80 percent of the crew on shore leave below, they might not even have the personnel to bring the main reactor up to full output in a useful time frame while going through a regulation safety checklist.

Given the apparent holes in the officer cadres aboard, maybe there were sufficient gaps in the command structure to prevent bypassing of those safety protocols, and the rest is history.

Valoren
Guest
Valoren

The point still stand. Shield gap or not, five Y-wing can apparently completely immobilize an ISD in a matter of second, to the point of it not being able to either counter a corvette acceleration/maneuver out of the way, attack it or alert anyone of the enemy obvious tactic (plus, if there was a shield gap, it was a pretty large one considering the spread of torpedo impacts on the dorsal hull)
As for the devastator, it was a fresh warship surprise-smashing an already battered and fleeing rebel fleet, which had already started jumping away. its performance isn’t really surprising.

Sephiroth0812
Guest
Sephiroth0812

Didn’t those Y-Wings carry heavy Ion bombs which do a ton of EMP-damage? I remember in the Season 3 finale of Rebels Jan Dodonna’s Y-Wings also flew an attack run on one of the ISDs from Thrawn’s 7th Fleet and while they managed a local shield overload and some superficial damage to the hull the Destroyer remained completely operational directing its TIEs to wreck the Y-Wings in return. Granted, the two ISDs at Scarif, the Persecutor and Intimidator, were said to be manned with second rate crew and possibly understaffed as well while the ISDs of Thrawn’s fleet are manned… Read more »

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

Sure, ion bombs are a thing, but if a single squadron of obsolete Y-Wings can disable an Imperator in one pass, then why is anyone building Star Destroyers? My point was not about crew quality, but that the Scarif ISDs simply didn’t have more than a skeleton crew. They weren’t maneuvering, they weren’t launching fighters of their own, and maybe 15 percent of their dorsal weapons seemed active. Most tellingly, instead of exploding catastrophically like that hit destroyer at Endor, they just sheared off metal when they slammed into each other. All of this seems to point to a ship… Read more »

Sephiroth0812
Guest
Sephiroth0812

That’s why I also brought up the counter example from Rebels Season 3. There the Rebel Y-Wings tried the same thing as in Rogue One at Scarif yet caused only miniscule damage to the targeted ISD by itself and didn’t get to attempt a second attack run because the TIE screen partly destroyed and partly chased them off. When Thrawn brought his ISDs to Atollon they were undoubtedly in full battle readiness with energy diverted to both shields and weapons, so that would be an indicator to your theory on the ISDs at Scarif not even capable of getting fully… Read more »

Valoren
Guest
Valoren

the Y-wing squadron that manage to cripple the malevolence arguably only managed it because they targeted its super weapon at a critical moment. Note that the ion cannons exploded precisely when grievous gave the order to fire while the torpedos themselves made very limited damage overall. That’s more of a superweapon quirk, like the death star exhaust-port, than some universal flaw that could be generalized to include star destroyers.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Seems to me that popping wing-scale carriers before they finish scrambling (& keeping one hand on the lightspeed lever if the bombers jumped in) plus maintaining a healthy turn of speed would help WRT defusing R1-scale strikes (and good luck getting those TLJ B-29 knockoffs to catch anything not frozen by plot). If I’m dealing with a Lucrehulk-ballpark swarm plus their parent ship solo, it was time to leave yesterday.

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

Going by the novel Cobalt Squadron, the Starfortress actually has a decent turn of speed; iirc Cobalt Hammer made it from a system’s asteroid belt to one of its habitable planets in under an hour, it also took them only about 2-3 minutes to get through the atmosphere to their drop zone on later runs to that world. Unfortunately, I can’t check exact details right now as I’m about half an hour away from my copy of Cobalt Squadron and Wookieepedia hasn’t been updated with anything from the book. The main problem with the TLJ bombing run (wrt speed) was… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

Except Y-wings could replicate that precision without slowing down. The same applies to B-wings and TIE bombers. And the Hyena bombers from the Clone Wars. We’ve never seen slow-moving bombers in Star Wars. All the bombers in Star Wars have been moving at a rather high speed during bombing runs. So clearly, speed has no effect on precision. Also, this whole thing about precision is a load of bullshit, for that scene at least. Those bombs are proton warheads, and they do a lot of damage in a big blast radius. That’s kind of the point of a bomb or… Read more »

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

I can’t deny that both sides failed monumentally in their tactics for that battle. That said, the Resistance dropped a lot of bombs directly onto the only known weak point in the siegepizza – the solar ionization reactor. Can we be sure that fewer bombs would have done the trick? Proton torpedoes may have had as little effect on Fulminatrix’s reactor as they did on Starkiller Base’s thermal oscillator. The Resistance may have reasonably believed that they needed every bomb from at least one bomber to hit the target in order to destroy it; with how long it took Cobalt… Read more »

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

To directly address your point about other bombers moving fast during bombing runs: Every time we’ve seen fast bombing runs in the movies or TCW they’ve been carpet bombing the target, not attempting a surgical strike. They’ve also dropped one bomb at a time, not 1,024; there is no spread on a single bomb. Surgical strikes have, in previous movies and TV series, almost always been torpedo strikes; as I mentioned above, torpedoes may not have been anything like powerful enough to get the job done in this case. The one case where bombers conducted a surgical strike with bombs… Read more »

Sephiroth0812
Guest
Sephiroth0812

Tbh I was more surprised that Poe could just blast apart the turrets of the Fulminatrix with the puny little Lasercannons of his X-Wing. Does a “Mandator IV” Pizza slice not have any shields? Like is it the TIE Fighter of Capital ships or what? Disney has no idea to portray consistency or logic with the rest of the SW Universe it seems.

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

I’m puzzled by that too. Even if he somehow managed to get under the shields before Canady had them activated, those huge turrets should have had enough armour on them to withstand a few shots from a T-70’s cannons.

Ryadra777
Guest

Don’t forget about the class name of the Supremacy you hate Fractal.
For those who don’t know it is the Mega class.

Chris Bradshaw
Guest
Chris Bradshaw

The other rebel vessels weren’t half bad, if few in number. The Vakbeor frigate, Free Virgillia Corvette, and Nebulon C were pretty decent looking, even if they didn’t really end up doing anything.

It never did make sense that Holdo was a corvette captain before she took command though. Odd chain of command they’ve got there.

Noah
Guest
Noah

The Ninka dates back to the galactic civil war. So Holdo probably earned her rank against the Empire.

Also, fuck logic. The Ninka was carrying nukes, so it should have been able to destroy the dread-not itself.

Sephiroth0812
Guest
Sephiroth0812

That is its very own branch of stupidity. Normally a ship class is named after the first vessel laid down in its class, meaning the first Venator-class should have been named “Venator”, the first Tector “Tector” and so on. Logically this would mean Snoke’s boomerang would be the Supremacy-class but then again it is said only one ship exists anyways. There is no “class” at all if it is a unique ship. There didn’t exist a Dreadnought-class in the British Royal Navy because HMS Dreadnought was a single ship, same goes for the HMS Hood hence why there was not… Read more »

Daib
Guest
Daib

You do realize the HMS Hood was a member of the Admiral class. Different nations can have different naming systems for ships.

Noah
Guest
Noah

Except T-70 X-wings can carry a larger load than the T-65, and can carry different kinds of ordinance as well as proton torpedoes. In fact, an even better strategy would be to pack Poe’s fighter with ion torpedoes, disable the dread-not with them, then finish the job with either the rest of the X-wings or the cannons of the Raddus. Or they could have sent the Ninka in and drop one of its nukes on the damn thing. There’s gotta be a million ways the battle and the movie could have gone better.

Also, ever heard of tracking torpedoes?

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

A larger load indeed, 8 torpedoes (source: TFA ICS) to the T-65b’s 6 (source: SotG SE). Your argument so far has only strengthened my point that a single T-70 doesn’t pack anything like enough firepower to get the job done. Regarding ion torpedoes: Gold squadron launched at least 14 ion torpedoes at the Intimidator to disable it; I seriously doubt that 8 would have any effect on a (7.7×4.1×0.77)km siege pizza. At the time of the battle of D’Qar, the Resistance only had about 8-12 T-70s available. Even if all of them were equipped with their maximum theoretical payload, they… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

Then just go back to Y-wings. They could probably carry the equivalent of at least half of a StarFortress. And Y-wings are cheap and easy to build. How else would the Rebellion have ended up with so many? If the Resistance could afford T-70s and RZ-2s, there’s no doubt they could afford a couple Y-wings. Also, while 14 ion torpedoes were launched at the Intimidator in Rogue One, 6 of them were enough to knock out more than half the star destroyer, and only 4 Y-wings participated in the bombing run, so they didn’t need that many Y-wings or ion… Read more »

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

1/2 “Then just go back to Y-wings. They could probably carry the equivalent of at least half of a StarFortress.” A Y-Wing cannot carry 524 (TLJ ISC StarFortress payload/2) high yield proton bombs or their equivalent. It’s barely the same size as 524 high yield proton bombs. Legends states that the BTL-A4 model can carry a maximum of 20 proton bombs (Star Wars: Rogue Squadron). Given that the BTL-S3 is essentially the same ship with a two seat cockpit module on the front, it’s logical to think that the same limit applies to the -S3. Even if the -S3 can… Read more »

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

2/2 “It only took one StarFortress to blow up the entire dread-not, and there’s so much wrong with the StarFortress that I’m pretty damn sure a single Y-wing could achieve the same result.” Flawed or not, that one StarFortress was dropping 1048 high yield proton bombs (TLJ ICS) directly onto the Siege Pizza’s only known critical weak point (TLJ ICS), as determined by Poe Dameron’s study of the ship’s blueprints (Battlefront II, Cobalt Squadron). However much better than the StarFortress the Y-Wing may be at its own job, it only carries around 1 50th of the StarFortress’ firepower (10 torpedoes… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

I don’t understand why you are defending the slug bombers and the dread-not.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

Seems pretty obvious to me. Not that I’m a fan of either design, but the economy of force provided by one bomber with half-a-dozen crew dropping the equivalent bombload of 4 full squadrons of Y-Wings is hard to deny. And while I am certainly no fan of TLJ, the battle was what it was. You’re presuming that Y-Wings would be available in the strength necessary to pull off the strike you’re talking about, yet I don’t recall seeing any Y-Wings in that film, even if just in the background. What if there WERE no Y-Wings available to perform the strike,… Read more »

Spud
Guest
Spud

the brige

Shaun
Guest
Shaun

What are the rounded-square ‘hatches’ dotted along the dorsal super structure (fore and aft) and the ventral ‘pylons’?

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

The ‘pylons’ look like a bit of flank hangar protection/extrusion. No clue whatsoever on those hatches.

Shaun
Guest
Shaun

Just noticed the same asset is used on both the Consolidator bridge pylons…

So… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ship stores/docking access, maybe?

xXx
Guest
xXx

Has anyone know if there is any game/mod (e.g. Empire at War) that use Assertor (even if it’s not this particular model)?

shilka
Guest
shilka

The Assertor will be added to the 2.3 version of the Imperial Civil War mod

Sadboi
Guest
Sadboi

I tried asking for it to be included as an alternative to the Executor for some mods on moddb for Sins of a solar empire and people just openly mock me for asking something similar to the executor =(

cScott
Guest
cScott

I wonder how much this cost the Imperial taxpayers to construct.
And how was the Rebellion/New Republic ever suppose to counter 1 of these; other than have heroes with plot armor, just avoiding it or hoping that Arvel Crynyd has a twin brother or something

JFKrol2
Guest
JFKrol2

Rebels/NR had only 2 ways to counter SSDs – have own SSD and shitton of fighters or “gank” with Nebula SDs / MC cruisers, also with excesive amounts of fighters

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Some of the late-Legends New Jedi Order-era books also mentioned Mon Cal dreadnought designs like the Viscount class (which actually made it into a fleet-combat miniature game). That said, there’s always messing with such monsters’ supply chains, especially given the amount of splintering-Imp-warlord-faction chaos for a consolidating NR to exploit. Funny thing is, Assertor was *barely* introduced c/o the Essential Guide to Warfare before Disney picked up Lucasfilm & opted for the ‘clean slate just enough to enable our material’ approach.

Sephiroth0812
Guest
Sephiroth0812

There’s also the Mediator-class Battlecruiser (Mon Cal-ship) and the Strident-class Star Defender (Corellian) which are in roughly the same “league” as the Viscount or the Assertor.

All those are New Republic-only though so the Rebel Alliance has practically nothing except massive fighter strikes and sabotage to use against such behemoths.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Could’ve sworn Mediator & Strident were battlecruiser-scale designs closer to the Bellator & Praetor’s ballpark. Either way, no wonder the budding NR had to pick its sector-reclamation commitments carefully during Legends’ Imp Civil War clusterkriff.

Shaun
Guest
Shaun

And GR-75’s. Lots and lots of GR-75’s hypering into everything. With a year’s production run, you could easily put a GR-75 through every Imperial star destroyer, super weapon, shipyard, platform, throne room, and with enough leftover to evacuate Hoth a couple times.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

So THAT’S why you need interdictors. Well, interdictors and/or a kriffton of concessions to Gallofree’s labor union.

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

Most sources describe GR-75 fireships making their suicide runs at distinctly sublight speeds, even on Imperial formations without interdictor support. While the Raddus’ sacrifice was certainly visually stunning, hyperspace ramming as a common tactic has not really been part of legends. A while ago on these boards I made a post about justifying Holdo’s remarkable success as a force-assisted move enabled by Leia. Typically, I would expect an attempt at a hyperspace ram to revert to realspace before contact, or else no one would bother to deploy any capital ships in the face of billions of cheap, unmanned hyperspace capable… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

TBH, pretty sure the initial ‘kamikazes everywhere’ post was in jest (my response sure was). I recall & more/less agree with the ‘golden Force-assisted BB’ theory, which certainly has precedent up the ying-yang. Plus, of course, there’s Devastator’s R1 arrival right in the Rebel fleet’s path, which seems like it would’ve tripped Vader’s threat sense with airhorns if relatively minuscule hyper-rammers were THAT lethal.

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

Just trying to squash bad EU brainbugs before they re-infest the whole place.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Understandable inasmuch as Youtube & some of the old SpaceBattles(R)-style sites are hopelessly mindtick-laden (and some days I despair about SD.net).

CT2222
Guest
CT2222

What do you mean by this,sir? As in,Spacebattles Forum?

Shaun
Guest
Shaun

A tad in jest, yes, but with TLJ, the ‘strategy’ (as with so many other elements of the story, is obviously just bad and lazy writing) is now canon. And while the idea that it’s a force-assisted move is a rational idea, it’s far too polite of you to do that work for the writers. At least in the EU it was almost completely impossible, with the intential practice relegated to a single super weapon and the rest noted as accidents.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I still get the impression hyper-ramming success rates are uneven enough to discourage adopting the process (or other lightspeed-projectile tinkering) en masse…plus, you’d think the Empire would be pushing for zampolits and/or self-destruct hairtriggers on anything more spacious than your average TIE.

Valoren
Guest
Valoren

It may be canon, but it doesn’t change anything about its contradictory nature, even with disney’s own highest form of canon. Vader’s arrival in Rogue One was already evoked in this comment thread, but I think that there’s a much better example of the absurdity of the Holdo maneuver in the exact same movie:
When the U-wing jumped from inside the atmosphere of Jedha without sustaining any significant damage. If TLJ’s description of hyperspace jumps was accurate they should have been instantly vaporized by friction.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Light shuttle-tier particle deflectors working just long enough? U-wings may be more delicate than the Falcon, but sweet Sithspit did Solo add to that bucket’s already ludicrous penchant for absorbing punishment. Does seem rather contrived nothing denser than a pebble wound up dropping in their path.

Noah
Guest
Noah

The Falcon has plot armor, though.

Noah
Guest
Noah

I don’t think that the Raddus would have reverted to realspace before contact. I think that hyperspace ramming is something that would actually take a certain degree of skill to do. Think about it. If you plan on ramming a ship into another, bigger one, you have to make sure that the ramming ship will actually set a course that would take it through the target ship. If your target is a Death Star, no problem, but a dreadnought like the Supremacy or something else is gonna be harder to hit from the front, back, and sides. And you’re still… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

There was one occurrence in TCW where a ship set a course into a neighboring object. In the episode Destroy Malevolence, Anakin sabotages the Malevolence’s navicomputer so when it tried to jump to hyperspace, it would set itself on a collision course with the closest moon. The plan did work, and the Malevolence collided with the moon, but it did not have the same effect as the hyperslice in TLJ. But the hyperslice still isn’t against the rules. A very important thing to note about the destruction of the Malevolence is that the Malevolence wasn’t ramming into another starship; it… Read more »

TheIcthala
Guest
TheIcthala

It’s not malarkey, and it could help to explain the unexpectedly low yield of the impact. In an episode of Because Science, Kyle Hill calculated that the energy release from Raddus impact (assuming it was at 0.9999c relative velocity) would be sufficient to convert the Doomerang and its attendant Murder Wedges into plasma, vaporise the fleeing Resistance, and sterilise Crait. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1M95njhovw Your conjecture of Supremacy’s uneven gravity well pulling Raddus out in pieces could explain the relatively low energy impact we see. It’s possible that, as Raddus was torn apart, most of its mass completely missed Supremacy and her fleet,… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

Well, we’re probably not wrong, given that we both agree about this. And there’s another good reason why nobody uses hyperspeed ramming: the results are really unpredictable. Even if you’re skilled enough to plot a course that takes you directly into an enemy ship, your ship isn’t going to be torn apart in a way that is predictable. While they seem to prefer traveling in the same direction as the brief jump to lightspeed, the resulting pieces could fly out in any direction once they enter realspace, and there’s always a chance that one or more of those pieces will… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

Yeah, good luck ramming the Assertor.

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

Given what we know about how useful gravity well generators are, there has to be an in-universe reason as to why every line destroyer and above doesn’t have a set. Cost doesn’t really make sense when you take into account the absurd industrial capacity of the great powers, nor does lack of technical expertise to operate them, but perhaps the projectors only work at relatively short ranges and fall off according to the inverse-square law to the point of near uselessness at typical (non-cinematic) combat ranges of several thousand kilometers. Another explanation might be scaling. The projectors on a Dominator… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

I agree with most of this, but cost really was an issue for the Empire. In fact, the Empire actually punished admirals so severely that it resulted in a high suicide rate among admirals, because if they lost more than one destroyer under their command, they’d have wasted a million credits-worth of hardware, and the crew loss would have been even more condemning. KDY wasn’t building ISDs for free.

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

There’s a bit of a disconnect between the tactical level, where local admirals are held accountable for their failures, and the strategic level where the Empire could assemble 70% of the 900 km diameter 2nd Death Star in months, and with total secrecy. KDY’s total ISD production line was a tiny fraction of that kind of industrial capacity.

Besides, a million credits is chump change. You probably wouldn’t be able to afford an upscale Coruscant condo for that kind of money, never mind a mile long warship.

Shaun
Guest
Shaun

You can’t even buy a house in Vancouver for that much.

Noah
Guest
Noah

Eh, credits are still credits, and they don’t grow on trees for anyone, not even the Empire. Nothing’s free. Like I said, though, I agree with what you said about the interdiction fields having negative effects on the ship and/or crew. I would also like to add that interdictors aren’t as effective as you might think. The thing is that you can’t predict another vessel’s path through hyperspace without having an insider on the other ship. And while there are hyperspace shipping lanes, not everyone adheres to them. So while an interdictor can pull a starship out of hyperspace, you… Read more »

Crulak
Guest
Crulak

I would suspect the real reason for this is Plot shielding. It’s incredibly inconvenient to the rebels if the Empire has the ability to pull their merry band of miscreants out of hyperspace at will. Or better, preventing them from getting away.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

It was never meant to be a perfect system. Under the original description of the Interdictor, it’s basically intended to trick ships in hyperspace into dropping into realspace, and isn’t a sure thing by any stretch. Also, more power isn’t really needed to pull larger ships out of hyperspace. Gravity well projectors effectively deceive a ship’s automated hyperdrive cut-out into thinking the ship is too near to a significant gravity well (planet-sized or larger) to safely travel in or jump into hyperspace, so the automated system won’t allow the drive to engage. My thinking on the Dominator was more that… Read more »

Sephiroth0812
Guest
Sephiroth0812

When I see an Assertor I always get the vibe that this class has to be the second most powerful conventional warship class in the Star Wars universe, outpaced only by the Executor class.
(I don’t count the Sovereign and Eclipse-classes as conventional warships, they’re superweapons!)

anonymous
Guest
anonymous

I think fractal conceived the Assertor as massively outpacing the Executor. Wasn’t it supposed to have the power output of 400 ISDs, with guns to match, compared to the Executor’s just over 100 ISDs?

If the Assertor is supposed to have 3 to 4 times the Executor’s firepower, it’ll be way out in first place, not second.

Valiran
Guest
Valiran

There’s also the fact that the Assertor is literally covered in weapons batteries whilst the Executor…isn’t. It gets hard for me to tell because the Assertor is a highly detailed model with every turret visible to the naked eye, whilst the Executor is a studio model that, from what I can tell, had weapons fire erupt from nondescript points on the hull during every battle it took part in. With that in mind and the statistics of Star Wars ships being debatable, with the exception of Fractal’s comments on his own work, who can truly say which ship is more… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Anon’s pretty much correct re: our host’s original thoughts on this murderslab’s punch, give or take fifteen Impstars…though one recent-ish Fantasy Flight Games RPG book trotted out massively nerfed Assertor stats more/less in line with Seph’s initial musing. Now I’m just wondering how far you’d have to scale an Assertor down (10 km? Less?) for said nerfing to compute.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

Funny Story: There’s a guy on one of the D6 gaming websites who posted a conversion of the FFG stats. When I presented him with an actual fractal quote disavowing those numbers, he responded that FFG’s printed stats took precedent over what fractal’s own images showed. I just didn’t know what to say to that.

Spud
Guest
Spud

It is still better than sovereign and eclipse tho

Noah
Guest
Noah

The Assertor could probably reduce the Sovereign and the Eclipse to slag without using its superlaser.

Anthurak
Guest
Anthurak

Looking at this thing now, I feel like it has even more guns than the last time I saw it 😀
One thing I’ve been curious about for a while: Your original version of the Assertor has an Axial Superlaser, right? I was wondering what the yield on that thing is supposed to be compared to the Eclipse and Sovereign versions.

Valoren
Guest
Valoren

The yield of this Beasts superlaser is supposed to be 70 petaton. I don’t exactly know what the eclipse yield is, but if it’s closer to the death star, it should be multiple orders-of-magnitude over that.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Some of the 90s EU fluff text re: Eclipse’s firepower may not have accounted for the sheer scale gap between its axial zapper and even one of DS1’s emitters (those compound-beam projectors for the planet-cracker). Eclipse might be able to pull off something close to the Jedha & Scarif ‘single reactor’ blasts in R1, but that strikes me as its upper limit, and it likely needs multiple shots to crack a top-tier planetary shield. Still outguns Assertor, but the latter’s mini-SL is supposedly intended for more (relatively) rapid fire against warship/station targets.

Valoren
Guest
Valoren

I don’t even think the jedha explosion was equivalent to a single petaton. It was a few hundred kilometers wide at best while eclipse is regularly cited as being capable of cracking entire continents in half in a single shot (even if, considering its dimensions relative to the death star, I think it should do much more).

anonymous
Guest
anonymous

The cracks in Jedha in the aftermath of the shot are long enough to stretch from one side of a small continent to the other – that satisfies “a continent was cracked in half”.

And the Ashes of Jedha arc of the Marvel Star Wars comic suggests the planet suffered vastly more damage than was seen onscreen – maybe the cracks continued to propagate?

valoren
Guest
valoren

Even admitting that a “continent” (or whatever its equivalent is on a planet with no sea) was arduously cracked, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s ridiculously tame compared to Alderaan’s explosion and what an eclipse should be able to do if it was based on the same technology. I’ve seen the marvel star wars comic version of Jedha, and it’s completely absurd. If the first shot had done that much damage, Jyn and Cassian would have been instantly killed (They couldn’t be that far from ground zero, since they could see the city from gerrera’s lair). You can even… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Eclipse still seems to be working with far less potential reactor space than DS1, especially if it’s also intended to retain some degree of conventional-warship capability (which the old Essential Guide stats re: HTLs, lasers & carried small craft imply). Plus, the thing’s also packing a double fistful of roughly Impstar-sized grav-well projectors, though their power draw might be relatively negligible. Might’ve helped if Dark Empire *or* Empire’s End had ever tossed in a panel with either member of the class firing a single shot (well, besides point-defense on Eclipse II’s part).

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

It seems like the Eclipse might try to get around those limitations by being mostly capacitor by volume, which explains why it’s so awful at being a conventional warship. Something like the Jedha shot seems well within that sort of capability.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

With no planetary shield in the way, sure. I still have to doubt the Palpatemple’s max yield hits even a fair fraction of ANH’s Alderaan Demonstration(C). Seems more fitting as a fleet-support/Rim-terrorizing siege device than full replacement for the Death Stars, though it’s still saner than the (thankfully de-booted) Sun Crusher.

Valoren
Guest
Valoren

An eclipse should be roughly a 10000th the volume of the first death star (assuming the 120 km diameter figure is accurate). the shot that destroyed Alderaan was 1E38 J worth of energy. From that you can easily deduce that the ship, even accounting for the size difference, should be able to destroy a full-sized planet by a pretty large margin, let alone a continent.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I’m pretty much on board with Eclipse one-shot ruining unshielded worlds, though one wonders how often those would be deemed worth its use. Still headscratching about the limits of spared-no-expense planetary deflectors, and whether Darth Lugosi’s new ride would exceed them-thus eliminating any need for further murderstation projects.

…come to think of it, Umak Leth’s Galaxy Gun would’ve made rather more sense bolted onto a dreadnought-scale hull, and thus benefiting from said platform’s passive & active defenses. Plus, less time Palpaclone has to spend Force-watching his back lest some plucky saboteur crew try lobbing a few also-planet-cracking hypercruise missiles his way.

Steve Bannon
Guest
Steve Bannon

At the same time you wouldn’t want ordnance that dangerous on the same ship as yourself. I would have just put it deep in the intergalactic void like those Banking Clan treasury stations, but literally anywhere besides Byss low orbit was probably a better idea.

Shaun
Guest
Shaun

Ima slap a saddle on Mawthulu.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Also a valid pick, though I’d need to have a solid guess WRT her metabolism & hence lifetime asteroid-slug needs. Plus, last I checked the macroveterinary board recommends at least 2.5 klicks of resting surface.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Now this has me headscratching over your average unarmed SW warhead’s volatility. One hopes they aren’t quite so shake-&-boom prone as Disneyboot crude hyperfuel.

Noah
Guest
Noah

And you can get a similar result from a Base-Delta-Zero. Which the Assertor can perform. The Eclipse is listed as having about two thirds of the power of one of the DS1’s emitters. If we are right to assume that the DS1’s SRI was equivalent to one of its emitters being fired on its own, then the Eclipse would have probably still been able to blow Jedha city off the face of the planet, but the blast would have spared more of the surrounding area, and maybe Saw and his rebels would have lived to tell the tale. But the… Read more »

Noah
Guest
Noah

I said the Eclipse was 2/3 the power of a single beam emitter, not the entire superlaser of the Death Star. Also, thanks for correcting me. I was a little unsure about it.

JAMESMCGR
Guest
JAMESMCGR

I want one

RedBird
Guest
RedBird

Only one word to say about this… Glorious!