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CRMcNeill
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CRMcNeill

A thought: including the Lancer for scale is an awesome touch, and something I’d like to see more of, but I wonder if a CR90 might be more appropriate. Considering one of the first things we see in ANH is how a CR90 fits into the bay of an Imperator, seeing the same ship in far more massive bays on far more massive ships would really drive home how much larger said ships are in a way that the Lancer lacks…

gorkmalork
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gorkmalork

Eh, the Lancer’s only 2/3rds again a CR90’s length, though you might have a point WRT more film-only and/or recent-media fans lacking that frame of reference. Come to think of it, pretty sure there’s a roughly Falcon-scale Disneyboot patrol ship using that name now, which could complicate Googling slightly.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

True, but it’s one thing to know that a Lancer is 100 meters longer than a CR90 and quite another to actually see it on screen.

As to the other, I had to Google it, but yeah, it’s a Clone Wars-era ship. You’d think that, with all the words in all the various languages on the planet, the Lucasfilm Storygrope could find something original. Hell, just throw “Lancer” into Google Translate and start clicking random languages to see if anything you like comes up.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I’ll give the Disneybooters this much: as ship names go, ‘Ravager’ fits an Executor rather better than it did that Lancer from the X-wing books. Still suggests a somewhat low-energy approach to space-combat details.

Chris Bradshaw
Guest
Chris Bradshaw

Disney also reintroduced Lancer Frigates for the First Order, but I don’t think they have a new visual representation yet. Hopefully it’s a little less phallic this time around.

gorkmalork
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gorkmalork

With the siege pizza’s precedent, there’s a fair chance it’ll rock a pair of extra-evocative thruster blisters.

Valiran
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Valiran

The Bellator has been my favorite ship since I saw it on SD.net back in the late 00s. I can hardly wait to see what it will look like after you’ve finished giving it a modern update!

TheEpicDude
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TheEpicDude

So…much…hanger…space!!!

PhantomFury
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PhantomFury

Lancer in the hangar opening is truly breathtaking! I can practically hear the PA now!

Sorican
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Sorican

Yeah. I came here looking for a new desktop background. the only real problem is…uh… picking which one. right now, it’s the Lancer with the hangar bay. we’ll see how long it lasts (Awesome render… maybe a little busy for a desktop background. Before finding this ever so lovely place, i was always a matte gray kind of guy.)

xavi
Guest
xavi

Mr. Fractal. I download all your stuff, I’m collecting all (for personal consumption only). I love all them… but I would like some more “rebel scum” material…. for example I was looking as crazy for Nebula Class destroyer pictures through all internet but I only could find always the same picture

Sorican
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Sorican

B-WING! I want a B-WING!! I have a wish list of ships I’d love to see turned into proper models… and for which I cannot afford commissions. Bwings and nebulas are at the top of the list.

Daib
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Daib

You do realize he’s already done a Nebula.

PhoenixKnight
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PhoenixKnight

But has he updated it yet? I do wonder why the Nebula never been on his site?

Daib
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Daib

Most of the way down the page. http://fractalsponge.net/?p=923

2-SX-E
Guest

Wait you actually downloaded those 3D models? How? Where?

STONEhenk
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STONEhenk

I think xavi means the pictures. These 3dD models are not up for download because thats a easy way to get your art stolen.

PhoenixKnight
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PhoenixKnight

@ xavi
I was wondering about that too is a chance to see the more of the Nebula SD and co?

xavi
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xavi

every few days I check this page checking for new updates like a child in front of a toystore. Amazing as always. This pictures with the Lancer inside are Epic. I don’t use to comment because I don’t use have anything clever to say… just “Wow!!”

gorkmalork
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gorkmalork

Much as I love technoblathering, this is so very relatable.

n/a
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n/a

hey fractal have u ever thought about doing warhammer 40K ships?

Valoren
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Valoren

I wouldn’t bet on that, unless someone make an actual commission.

Cdr. Rajh
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Cdr. Rajh

Wow, those shots with the Lancer are truly beautiful!

Certainly a very humbling view for any crew aboard that Lance, that;s for sure!

Ragnrok
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Ragnrok

Those shots are aaaamaaazing!

DanielShenise
Guest

I hate to be the contrarian but I’ve tried and tried, but I like your old lighting setups better. I thought it peaked with the Allegiance.

Revan
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Revan

It looks amazing, when you’re done could you post the official armament, compliment and other stats please? I’m pretty sure you’d keep track.

TheIcthala
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TheIcthala

Turret Count Update:
PD Turrets: 863
Quad Medium Turbolaser Turrets: 116
Quad Heavy Turbolaser Turrets: 42
Octuple Heavy Turbolaser Barbettes: 22
Twin UltraHeavy Turbolaser Turrets: 24
Quad Heavy Ion Cannon Ball Turrets: 14
Missile Launch Tubes: 108

I haven’t been counting tractor beams, but if you’d like me to, just let me know.

As ever, corrections are welcome.

Steve
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Steve

Thank you for keeping this running commentary of how many weapons this behemoth of a ship has! I guess we must pretty much be approaching the end of the design process now and you’re probably on the final stretch now.

Taghmata Omnissiah
Guest
Taghmata Omnissiah

I like the idea that one or two Lancers are permanently stationed aboard this ship.

Steve
Guest
Steve

Aye would be a nasty surprise, additional anti-fighter escorts dropping out of her belly and staying close. Thing is this ship is liberally slathered with anti-fighter weapons, she’s very well protected against fighter strikes. Someone did a breakdown of the armament in a previous update. PD Turrets: 830 Quad Medium Turbolaser Turrets: 106 Quad Heavy Turbolaser Turrets: 42 Octuple Heavy Turbolaser Barbettes: 12 Twin UltraHeavy Turbolaser Turrets: 24 Quad Heavy Ion Cannon Ball Turrets: 10 Missile Launch Tubes: 48 And the PD turrets are double and quad mounts of lasers. The Lancers might even seem a bit pointless, but with… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

Oh wow! Six shield generators, and a lovely hangar layout, putting the Lancer in there is a clever use of ‘banana for scale’ as a TIE would be all but unnoticable. Whilst the Bellator don’t carry as many fighters as a more rational Executor (as 144 seems way too low for a ship of that size) I’d guess this thing carries somewhere in the order of 200 odd fighters, shuttles and assorted small craft (and that goes from TIE Manglers, to Skiprays to Starwings, various shuttles, assault transports etc)

Valoren
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Valoren

To be honest, the thing is so large, a venator-size fighter complement could probably fit pretty easily without even counting additional small craft.

Steve
Guest
Steve

Very true but the 500+ compliment of a Venator always seemed very high, especially when looked at with the context of later vessels. This can be blamed with a change of naval doctrine as the Empire was a huge proponent of big gun vessels rather than carriers. Huge monsters like the Executor and Eclipse could probably carry well in excess of 1000 fighters, but a ‘smaller’ ship like this, who’s got a lot of focus on raw firepower, say 288 fighters + 150 odd small craft? That’s double the canon Executor’s compliment of fighters. And the Bellator is built for… Read more »

STONEhenk
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STONEhenk

The Venator 500+ fighter complement is nothing compared to the 20 at-at’s + landing barges a Imperator carry canonically. An Imperator can easily carry 3 times Venator-complement when they trade in their Imperator-complement. The firepower and volume of a single Imperator are also equal to 3 Venators when going with Fractals HTL-power stats.

CRMcNeill
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CRMcNeill

Indeed. Square meterage of parking space is something that gets overlooked w/r/t “fighter complements” in the SWU. Many people (including otherwise excellent novel writers) just assume that if a ship has a capacity for 72 starfighters (6 squadrons), then that will be its absolute complement regardless of whether those 72 starfighters are TIE/ln’s or B-Wings. Never mind that TIE’s are carried in overhead racks wholly unsuited to B-Wings, or that two TIEs could be parked in the deck space needed to land a single B-Wing (likely with room left over). A real world example: during the early stages of WW2… Read more »

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

Considering how ubiquitous force fields, tractor beams and repulsorlifts are in the SWU, it wouldn’t be difficult at all to build a “shelf” type parking structure for starfighters to maximize their use of volume. A lot of warehouses use the same structure, stacking storage space vertically with long aisles between for accessibility. In fact, they did something similar with Naboo N-1s in the Theed Hangar. If starfighters can move as slowly as they are seen to move in the take-off scene in ANH:SE, maneuvering into and out of stacked storage spaces wouldn’t be too difficult. The next step would be… Read more »

gorkmalork
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gorkmalork

Offhand, A- and E-wings seem like the Alliance/NR’s best bet for low-ceiling, bulk-storable snubs of passable performance. On the opposite end, K-wings strike me as even deck-hoggier than the B- or most strike-specialized TIEs. Probably still manageable with all that freed-up walker space, but I’d stop at ~2 squads for a retrofitted Impstar or lighter destroyer.

Shaun
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Shaun

Thought there was some non-movie, Legends era resolution to this idea–the Quasar Fire-class ‘Flurry’ in ‘Truce at Bakura’ being an example where Alliance/NR fighters are shown as racked in resource materials.

I think for the most part the issue is one of the Rebellion’s non-carrier dedicated and repurposed civilian ships taking the forefront of visual identities.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

Depends on what source you go by. It was originally introduced in The Truce At Bakura as a “converted Virgillian Bulk Carrier,” IIRC. The whole design and backstory makes little sense, though. The description reads like that of a Bulk Cruiser, but it lacks anything resembling an actual bulk cruiser’s armament.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

The new look is nice, but I prefer to tack it onto a modified background of the old version. I picture the “stock” Quasar Fire as a bulk carrier, like a space-going heavy-lift ship, with the space between the bridge section and the engines used to haul cargos too massive to be fit into the cargo bays of normal freighters (starships, small space stations, bulk cargo pods, etc). All that would be needed to convert it to a carrier would be to strip out the heavy docking tackle and build in the launch bays.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

‘Bulk’ & ‘heavy’ seem like very relative terms in a setting which includes stuff like the FSCV & Lucrehulk, but I could see the Quasar as fitting roughly on the U-HAUL end of that spectrum. Also strikes me as one of those tertiary-party designs that winds up being used by every other (mainly Outer Rim-ish) space-capable faction.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

When referring to cargo, a “dry bulk carrier” carries large quantities of loose form material, such as coal, grain or granular ore. Tankers are also technically bulk carriers, but are classified differently. It’s still possible for a ~110-meter Action VI to be a Bulk Freighter in the traditional sense, so long as its cargo bay is configured to carry “bulk cargo.” It’s also not too much of a stretch to interpret “bulk” as hauling cargos too large to fit into the cargo holds or docking bays of other ships. In the real world, heavy-lift ships are used to reposition oil… Read more »

Shaun
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Shaun

Well, that’s the idea. The old EU one had purpose-built racks for Alliance/NR fighters. Logistically speaking, no, the Alliance racks won’t be as clean or standardized between fighters, but they are feasible. I would suggest that it’s safe to say that when the Alliance/NR purpose-built or heavily refit ships as carriers (or captured them from the Empire) they would include or adapt racks suited to- or adaptable to their own projected fighter compliment. When they’re refitting cruise liners or buildings or whatever to act as mobile bases or guerrilla capital ships, then they’re going to be limited by pre-existing frames… Read more »

PhoenixKnight
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PhoenixKnight

I would love to see this and that would be so cool

CRMcNeill
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CRMcNeill

As far as the rack mounts for TIEs, though, they appear to only use a single layer in their ready-to-launch bays. In effect, it’s an inversion of simply parking the ships on a deck, just dropping down from the racks and the other parked TIEs to fly out from under them rather than lifting up and flying over other ships parked on a flat deck…

Valoren
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Valoren

Talking about folding-wings, I’d wager TIEs are pretty easy to disassemble, which would make their mass storage significantly more efficient, even if they’re not battle ready.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Speaking of overlooked logistics: pretty sure one of the prior WIP threads mentioned this, but sweet Sithspit is there a brainbug WRT how rapidly ship small-craft complements can deploy in combat. Granted, repulsors & tractors can enable much, but very few debate threads seem to factor in, say, launches under fire or emergency thrust/maneuvers on the carrier craft’s part. Depending on surprise, initiative, intent (i.e. planned strike vs. random encounter) & a few factors I’ve probably overlooked, fighter-heavy ships might not get the necessary time/distance to smother a Tector/Allegiance-style gunboat with enough strike wings to make a difference.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

Conversely, a carrier could have scouts or AEW platforms forward deployed and detect the gunboat outside of its effective sensor range. As you say, a lot of factors potentially come into play.

And I think that other convo was one of mine, where I suggested that perhaps the WEG-listed fighter complements of the various ships were actually their combat ready complement, such as that while an Executor might have 20-30 wings onboard ship, it could only immediately launch two of them in the event of a short, sharp come-as-you-are engagement of the type a roleplaying group can expect to encounter.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

True; I was just spit-balling at the time. However, the larger conversation was about how a ship will only be able to surge launch its entire fighter complement under certain circumstances, generally only when it has sufficient time to prepare for a battle it knows it going to happen. IIRC, the numbers for the Soviet fighter regiments in FM-100-2-1 stated that fighters would only be kept on “ready to launch” status for a couple hours at a time. So basically, out of a squadron of 12 fighters, only one at a time would be ready to launch immediately (or thereabouts)… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I do wonder how much warning shipboard interceptors generally get in the face of R1/ROTJ-style jump-in strikes. The Scarif Impstars sure seemed to be caught napping in that regard, though I doubt *every* engagement involves cinematic gravity-well-&-collision-hazard-range shenanigans.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

Of course, Scarif is the only time we get to see a TIE spam launch (from the shield gate station). There were other TIEs already in combat before that launch, but they could’ve been CAP from the station just as easily as they could’ve been launched by the ISDs.

PhoenixKnight
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PhoenixKnight

* regarding TIE spam launch As far as movies go yes but several video games depicted as well

CRMcNeill
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CRMcNeill

I don’t recall it ever being discussed. WEG is the source for a lot of the “known” small craft complements and, apart from some brief fluff discussions on maintenance hours per flight hour in a couple articles, there’s no real mention of how many fighters out of a ship’s official complement will be down for maintenance, or needing to warm up from a cold start before being launched. For all the guidance given in the game, any capital ship could surge its entire starfighter complement into battle in a matter of seconds. The system worked well enough for what it… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

That more/less makes sense to me, though I suspect most superheavies’ base value (even with an extra-unlucky mitigating-conditions ‘roll’) would still handily outstrip the 2-wing stat. Well, besides Praetor, but Fractal’s version just sports a couple proportionally-minuscule bow bays.

CRMcNeill
Guest
CRMcNeill

In a lot of ways, it works better for a gaming scenario if you don’t have exact numbers to work with. If a GM can just roll the dice and say, “you’ll have to get past the flight of TIEs on CAP, but you’ll have to make it quick, because the destroyer can get another two squadrons of ready-alert fighters into space in twelve rounds,” that’s far more useful in a story-driven gaming scenario than knowing exactly how many TIE Fighters, Interceptors and Bombers are assigned to an ISD (which later turns about to wrong anyway). A lot of this… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

That noted, saner-sounding estimates would be handy for writer/fan-resource databases & the odd simulation demented enough to actually model that much stuff.

PhantomFury
Guest
PhantomFury

I dunno where to add this input so I’ll slap it here: interesting conversation on how there could be more TIEs stored in the likes of ISD and larger vessels, but I do believe the limited number listed on compliments could possibly be an optimum number sortied per battle while retaining response time. Aside from Imperial combat doctrine that doesn’t rely too much on fightercraft, it has been said that TIE are deployed very rapidly from its rack mounts, but fighter retrieval takes longer than its deck mounted counterparts – a fact that Rebels used to great effect to flee… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

I could halfway see that making sense if your TIEs are all early-GCW models sans hyperdrive and the support screen lacks a dedicated retrieval carrier to collect ’em, but that still leaves at least a fistful of upper-end capitals with enough apparent deck space to scramble several times the (formerly) official total count (mainly looking at Executor/Vengeance/Eclipse, but I suspect a couple of the heavier Mon Cals are also lowballed to a lesser degree).

Chris Bradshaw
Guest
Chris Bradshaw

Per the ICS, a stock Imperator has a relatively small separate retrieval hangar and a transfer passage to the launch hangars which would give a set number of TIEs it could retrieve per minute, although a mass launch from a high readiness state would be nearly instantaneous, like Scarif. Even if the TIEs are limited by endurance, there’s no reason why an Imperator couldn’t carry a few light tankers in the air wing, perhaps based upon the Sentinel spaceframe to keep the fighters spaceborne and fueled up for a little longer during extended operations. All of the supercapitals have official… Read more »

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

And here I figured tender or supercarrier capacity was the soundest explanation for Vengeance’s entire-ventral-bow cavity. Starting to wonder if that thing was either some kinda wacky stealth-battlecruiser concept or just waaay too far down the structural-lightening-for-extra-sublight-thrust curve.

Ryadra777
Guest

Steve*
Allegiance do not carry fighters and Fractal have estimate that the Executor can carry around 200 fighter wings which equal to 14,400 fighters total.
Don’t know about the Eclipse’s fighter compliment but I think it less than the Assertor’s fighter compliment. (Which is 24 fighter wings.)

Steve
Guest
Steve

Ahh okay 🙂 So basically the Allegiance is a super-Tector got ya, I thought she’d carry at least some fighters for self defence even though she’d have escorts and wouldn’t be alone. And that many aboard an Executor…bloody hell!

Ryadra777
Guest

The Allegiance have dozens of PD cannons for anti-fighter so it fine without escorts.

Steve
Guest
Steve

Perhaps, but considering the expense of such a big ship, and her somewhat specialized nature, that she’d almost certinally have escorts. Whilst she’s a ‘fat’ Star Destroyer, she’s still a major asset and would probalby have an Imperator or two or some smaller ships riding shotgun.

LazerZ
Guest
LazerZ

Wow, 200 Fighter wings was way off my estimate, which was closer to the complement of the Impellor-class

Kerobani
Guest
Kerobani

Placing a Lancer in that hangar was a neat touch.

Adam Warnock
Guest
Adam Warnock

What’s this? Are you branching out into interiors? Looks good Fractal. I’m looking forward to seeing how this gets developed.

gorkmalork
Guest
gorkmalork

Our host’s cranked out some snazzy hangar assemblies on a few prior projects, but the lighting here stands out.