42 Responses

  1. So Fractal are you doing some other work or something right now?

  2. So Fractal I bet you think the Resurgent class battlecruiser having over 1,500 turbolasers and ion cannons is also fanfic bullshit like the kyber crystals powering the turbolasers right?

    • Fractalsponge

      1500 is plausible, assuming it uses lighter HTL like an ISD, and that count includes all the MTL and LTL. A 3km+ ship is pretty damn big. I don’t like the kyber crystals thing for style reasons. I’m holding to this idea that technology doesn’t change that much in the basics – just in scale and implementation. Now a kyber-boosted turbolaser isn’t necessarily counter to that, but it ties into the big problem with the sequels as I see so far: make everything bigger and better RAWR because rule of cool must work that way right? It’s creatively bankrupt and fanfic-y. Generate danger from the villains by showing, not declaring and not puffing up the fluff material or by fiat. For instance, Veers in TESB was a lot more frightening a bad guy because he actually looked like he knew what he was doing – you got that just by watching him casually and professionally demolish Echo base without Hux’s overacted neu-Nuremberg histrionics. Maybe it’s a kid/adult thing. As an adult, competence on the other side is much more chilling than them just being loud and brash.

      I think lightsaber-related-crystal boosted turbolasers is a fanfic-y concept because I wrote fanfic using the idea when I was a a pre-teen. So I KNOW it’s fanfic-y. Also how the hell does it work? Crystals boosting range, ok I can buy that. But boosting power? wtf? We’re already assuming near 100% conversion from mass annihilation. What the hell kind of black magic are crystals doing to circumvent that? Also, “crystals” – please directors get a goddamn clue and read less trope-y scifi for inspiration.

      • Ok then and by away there is now another Resurgent class battlecruiser called the Absolution (like the name better than the Finalizer or not?) in the Star Wars novel Phasma.
        And I might bet you also say the same for the Executor Star Dreadnought which said to have over 5,000 turbolasers and ion cannons

        • Fractalsponge

          5000 is no issue for Executor, especially if you count lighter weapons.

          Absolution is good name, and yeah I think it’s a lot better than Finalizer. I’m waiting for the stupid name they’re going to stick on the Last Jedi ships.

          • Steve Bannon

            I’m satisfied with Leia’s flagship being named Raddus. It’s a coherent call back to Rogue One, and the ship itself is internally consistent with everything we know about the Mon Calamari in size and shape. They even got the class nomenclature correct by designating it (3km) as a heavy cruiser.

          • Anonymous

            Speaking of the Executor these dreadnoughts in legends said to have 250 Assault concussion missile tube with 30 missiles in each tube which times it by 250 tubes and you get a whopping 7,500 missiles!

      • Perhaps because I didn’t write excessive starwars fanfics, but I don’t mind the notion of Kyber crystals stuck in Turbolasers to amplify their firepower. Sounds like an experimental line of Turbolaser technology the First Order is willing to push into production for the sake of having the bleeding edge and the best military equipment. It’s not something implemented galaxy wide, for reasons (Kyber is rare to find/unpredictable to use in large quantities).

        Since the Finalizer never fired its turbolasers at anything, we’ll have to see what effect these new Kyber-enhanced primary batteries have when inevitably Resurgent-battlecruisers begin their attack on the Raddus.

        • R1’s use of K-crystals kinda-sorta made sense to me re: the Death Star(s?) due to the combination of Amplifier Stones(C), experimental compound-laser shenanigans & sheer raw scale. Whether the lightsaber rocks provide enough of a boost at (heavy) destroyer output for Resurgents to one-volley butcher OT-era ships in their weight class…let’s just say I’ll have to see that before believing. Unless, of course, Snoke spends half his offscreen time personally conducting DAAAHK SIED rites over each shipment from the Fortress (Mines) of Solitude.

      • Can’t say I’m a huge fan of this particular hype-machine strain either. “TIE/ln rehashes with a half-dozen extra weapons + features (and nearly no extra room for same)!” “Super-sized Death Star Squared(R) that LITERALLY KILLS A STAR before smacking your whole solar system!” “Bigger, badder star destroyers with technobabblitron-mineral-boosted main guns which putter about elsewhere when Your Heroes blow up Death Star Squared!” Just ’cause the kyber factor was more/less non-detrimentally retconned into DS1’s history doesn’t mean I found it especially vital or clever.

      • For the resurgent, with 1500 turbolasers, It would give approximately a gun every 70m (assuming the distribution is even on the hull and the trenches), which is not unreasonable for a warship assuming they take into account anti-fighter weaponry. We never hear about those on the standard ISDs, despite the fact that they demonstrably exists. But with such a large array of AA battery, Finn & Poe’s TIE should have been instantly obliterated in a gigantic crossfire, even without the aid of guided missiles.

        • Fractalsponge

          Ship wasn’t in combat so it might be a reaction time thing. Besides they launched several fighters on them, so it’s not like the ship needed to turn all of its firepower on one rogue fighter.

          • Numerous large (or at least visible) batteries were opening fire on them though. They even took the risk of making a run along the hull to destroy two of them, assuming that they would be a danger at long range, which would be both suicidal and useless if AA batteries numbered in the hundreds.
            And I didn’t see the ship launching fighters after them (not immediately anyway).
            If we assume that the resurgent has the same number of weapon as a scaled up ISD, it should have around 480 medium/heavy TLs, the rest being light TLs and AA defenses, not including the octuple TL batteries who are still 8, and of the same size as on the standard destroyer *sigh*.
            I never bought this theory that Imperators were completely inept at handling fighter threats. It was never said anywhere in the OT for anything but the Death Star defenses, but somehow it caught on to the point of becoming comical.
            A resurgent scaled down to 1600m would give 187 guns. assuming the information given to this point are true, all of that would be divided into 8 ultra-heavy TLs, 3 heavy TLs, 60 medium TLs and 116 AA light TLs/laser cannons, which would be reasonable since Venators (being 4-5 time less voluminous) are equipped with 52 of them.
            It still would be a step back from the previous era which would signify the change of doctrine.

          • gorkmalork

            @valoren
            Ditto re: the “Death Star turrets couldn’t hit snubs” trope being laid on several layers too thick. Don’t recall any mention of fighters (besides Finn & Poe’s) either-‘just’ several missiles ’till one connected, and enough laser-tracers on both exterior and cockpit-interior shots to indicate a fair amount of fire even with those two (medium?) turrets gone. Starting to wonder whether that hull-skimming (and the bit where Poe weaves between prow girders) was mainly to mask Team Stormpilot as long as possible, with the turrets a split-second target of opportunity. Also gotta wonder how often FO crews drill for light-craft defection, considering what a lockdown the brass presume to have on trooper loyalty. I’m not quite sold on the “underdefended in non-story-reasons circumstances” card (that TIE didn’t exactly get far), but Resurgents might’ve prioritized heavy/medium weapons & rapid fighter-launch, with PD coming in third.

  3. Darth Ashes

    Hi Fractal. Fantastic! 🙂 Still my favourite Imperial ship ever! Though those new designs are looking kind of sexy too. Any chance of doing maybe an ‘upgraded’ Bellator II-Class? Sorry I haven’t been able to email you yet, will try to soon.

  4. A wonderful late birthday present

    Looks superb

  5. Road Warrior

    I always assumed since Executor was the flagship of Death Squadron and Darth Vader’s personal command ship; she was outfitted with psychological warfare in mind. Painting the hull in a much darker tone than per standard for the navy and giving her a menacing (and unique for her size) engine glow would do the trick. Growing up I imagined some fuel additive at play. Perhaps some sort of spin-cooled argon gas….

    Executor was used as a symbol as much as anything else..

    Perhaps the practice was standardized for its class.(old EU art does show other command ships such as Terror and Lusynka(?) with red engine glows). Or, perhaps the practice wasn’t standardized. There is nothing wrong however with picturing a sister ship out there sporting blue engine glow.

    • I really dunno about Iconic Terrifying Mass/Shape/Coloration(R) being the primary in-universe (as opposed to ILM creative team meta) factor in Executor’s design (Vengeance/Eclipse/Sovereign, on the other hand…). Similar ‘spook the enemy’ fluff text gets applied to the AT-AT, and those beasties seemed functional/durable enough at Hoth (though I’d still want something closer to a traditional tank). Suppose it depends on how much time you figure the Imperial fleet’s heavier elements just spent cruising around spooking Core worlds & monitoring crucial supply chains between the odd Rebel encounter worth their use. Seems likely the EU artwork was just following film precedent, though I’d love to know how often said games had the battlewagons playing any role besides ‘extra-prickly fighter strike objective’.

      • spikedpsycho

        In it’s comic introduction Dark Empire, the ships were never named, wikia sites simply named it Humpback star battlecruiser.
        But the artwork made it look more Mon Calamari design especially it’s organic back side.
        http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Imperial_Star_Cruiser.jpg

        • Eh, Mon Cals never seem to work with pointy edges if they can help it-even with the partial thruster shroud that DE ship’s plainly a KDY (or at least KDY-derived) design. Fractal really filled the bow & keel out when deriving the Bellator in turn from that thing-dunno whether that makes the comic original an earlier mark or separate ship class.

  6. My understanding is that a red engine might be less efficient than a blue engine, since if I assume it is giving off black body radiation, then the blue color would mean the engine is hotter than a red engine. The hotter the engine the greater the thrust.

    • Agreed on Roy G. Biv if we were discussing engines operating entirely under current knowledge of physics. As-is in SW, we have alphabet-fighters with sundry shades of pink & orange nozzle-glow seemingly regardless of spaceframe shape or role, TIEs with no visible exhaust to speak of(?), and most bigger ships seem to go blue. I suppose a case could be made for Death Squadron’s sublight speed being dictated by Executor’s lack thereof, but then we have the Falcon struggling to outrun said flagship at the end of ESB.

      • Fractalsponge

        My thinking is that Hoth approach was pretty glacial – why rush when the shield was already up? Red for station keeping, shifting to blue for full thrust, which is rare. We don’t see engines for the Falcon chase, which might have been blue-white. Executor we know was fast because it accelerated with the destroyer screen at Endor to spring the trap.

        • That I can buy. Come to think of it, pretty much every ROTJ shot of that ship besides the bridge-damage closeups was bow-on or dorsal.

        • Steve Bannon

          Interestingly, I don’t think there’s any canon/legends footage of standard Imperators ever having red engine glares no matter how slow they were moving. When the destroyer station-keeping over Jeddah City turned on its main engines and started leisurely accelerating away at the pace of a Honda Fit, the colour of the engine glow went directly to blue , with no visible intermediate steps.

          • gorkmalork

            Point there. Maybe Impstars pack enough juice into a (relatively) tight hull to run hot no matter what setting the thrusters are on…or we might be dealing with Artistic Physics License(R) yet again. Road Warrior’s ‘fuel additive’ thought might be onto something.

          • Admiral Drakkmar

            I was thinking that the Destroyer above Jeddah was using full power to the engines to overcome the planets gravity and air resistance. In space the ship would not need that much thrust to achieve the samd rate of acceleration. Just a theory however.

          • gorkmalork

            @Adm. Drakkmar
            Continuous thrust wouldn’t be needed to keep humming in a straight line once you’re in vacuum, true. The Jedha destroyer might’ve been using engines to (lightly) propel/steer & repulsors to ascend ’till it hit safe altitude/distance from the city to start moving in earnest. Still not sure just how efficient those are on a naval scale besides (a) presumably enabling crippled dreadnoughts (Ravager in TFA) to make (relatively) intact crash-landings & (b) allowing Impstar-scale ships some degree of atmospheric operation.

          • I would not delve too deep into the details here. The exhaust glow looking exactly alike in an athmosphere as it does in vacuum is more than unlikely and the film makers for sure did not consider plasma physics here. It probably leads to all kinds of contradictions trying to explain this for the Jedha destroyer scene.

          • Steve Bannon

            There was an interesting theory on the SD.net thread about Star Wars engines pushing on hyperspace instead of realspace, which explains the total lack of heat/radiation/plasma effects that should be generated when something emitting that much energy is turned on in low atmosphere.

          • gorkmalork

            @Steve
            …that seems rather more involved to me than ‘steering on low thrust + repulsors’.

          • @steve
            But hyperspace and realspace are strongly linked together. It’s a fact known for a long time that gravity, like the one of a planet will have an effect on hyperspace. Also it would be like opening Pandora’s box, since If they can make all that energy disappear somehow (even if it’s not destroyed from the universe, hence sparing conservation of energy), they could probably turn that technology into some sort of hyperspace shield, who would make a turbolaser bolt harmless the time it take for it to go through a ship.
            And for all we know the destroyer taking off could have killed everyone, since we don’t see the city after that except from a long distance.

  7. Whoahoho, shading & engine flare for what remains my favorite EU-extrapolated capital craft. Shots 1 & 4 in particular are all the early birthday gift I needed this year.

  8. That looks awesome…

  9. Wow! those shots look amazing!

  10. So Fractal I might have encounter the most weirdest star ship ever: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/a5/WurrifLC-TBSB.png/revision/latest?cb=20060318184652

  11. Chris Bradshaw

    Everyone’s favorite Dark Empire refugee has finally figured out how to turn on its engines.
    The Cherenkov radiation style glow works well with Star Wars, but given how the Bellator is much closer in scale to the Executors than destroyers, wouldn’t it make sense to use a red engine glow?

    • I get the distinct impression Executor’s shade of thruster-backlight stems from the same arbitrary aesthetics logic applied to Imperial/Republic/Alliance laser-tracer differences: ‘cuz it looks cool. Dunno whether there’s any appreciable Roy G. Biv output-for-thrust implication difference to parse out between Ex & Bellators either, since the former never seemed to have much trouble chasing the Falcon or keeping pace with a destroyer screen at sublight.

  12. Ah so doing lighting updates then so I bet you either update the Allegiance or more Assertor since there only one picture of it for testing.

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